Rett Girls AT

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Comment by Jane Walerud on November 9, 2009 at 1:16pm

Rose-Marie asked whether other - not Communicator/Gateway/etc. programs can be controlled with an Eye Gaze system.

The answer is yes, for most of the Eye Gaze systems, both Tobii's and our competitors.

We supply "Windows Control" software as standard with every Tobii Dynamic Display device. That works on most windows based programs as long as the things you need to click on are big enough or you can zoom them to become big enough.

It's pretty neat, too - though I say it myself. If you're reading, the text scrolls down automatically as you reach the end of the screen. You can right or left click on anything large enough to get with Eye Gaze. You can zoom in to make more things clickable. There is a lot more functionality. Since there is so much functionality available, it - and some of its competitors - might not really be the right choice for a beginning eye gaze user. They can grow into it instead.

It's a good idea to make the software you already know and love eye controlled. We're currently talking to software companies who might like to make their AT software eye controlled.

We've just released a new and much easier Software Development Kit so making software eye controlled is a matter of adding one line to the program.

We hope that more software will be made eye controlled now that it is so much easier to do.

We do have a number of Retts girls who use the Tobii system.There is one sweetheart in Isreal I think of a lot. I wish there were more; it is really heartening seeing these girls communicating.

Jane

Comment by Rose-Marie Gallagher on November 7, 2009 at 9:34pm

Mark, thank you for your comments and analysis. Have you had much experience with PRC's EcoPoint? What is your take on it? We had a brief preview earlier this year with a beta EcoPoint (made by myTobii, correct?) before it had been through its final polishing. At that point, it was phenomenal when it was calibrated but re-calibrating was quite the challenge. Supposedly this issue has been addressed.

You mention the benefits of static displays for our kids with Rett, and I do believe that is why my daughter prefers Unity over the other language organization programs. Visual scanning is difficult for her and, when you throw in eye pointing as a selection technique, you have a recipe for some serious frustration. Because she seems to be happier memorizing location, she gets a LOT of bang out of that static core vocabulary with just one dynamic activity row. However, at this point she is dependent on the Tracker and that simply isn't dependable for access because of her variable head stability.

We have a tentative appointment to give the updated EcoPoint a try later this month. I'll report back how it goes.

I wanted to add a little note related to dwell selection as we experiment with programs loaded onto a variety of devices. Some programs, like Classroom Suite or BoardMaker+, can be enabled to count all dwell time within the border of a button. For girls like mine, whose head can move quite a lot, buttons can be sized large to increase successful dwell selection. Others programs, like the majority of head mouse control softwares, count time on an area of pixels. Holding to a small area can be difficult and fatiguing, but that is really the only way to access non-AT programs like PowerPoint. So, following Mark's excellent advice about trying a program across a variety of devices, it would be important to insure the selection method is set the same for all. That is, if you are setting dwell time via Classroom Suite for one device, then all others would need to be similarly set (ie: don't det another device to count pixel area). I don't know if that is worded very clearly; sorry if I'm being confusing.

Please let me know if I need to explain better,
Rose-Marie

Rose-Marie

Comment by Mark Surabian on November 7, 2009 at 7:50pm

Unlike the Tobii and Dynavox, the Eyegaze Edge from LC Technologies (which has been around for 20 years - www.eyegaze.com) is a computer-based system which can use ALL software, and the quality does not degrade when it leaves its software to control programs like Intellitools. Although medicaid does not outright pay for the device (because it costs $10,500), SLP's have proven in some states that there are no other options for these children and obtained the unit through medicaid (more luck with insurance and school purchases though). I work part-time for AMDI who represents the Eyegaze Edge in the northeast and can demo it to anyone interested. I don't work on commission so I feel I can be a bit more objective here than most people who represent vendors.

Three things I want everyone to know about eye-tracking: At my free AT center in Manhattan I have investigated AAC options for thirty children with Retts in the past six months (referred by Montefiore Hospital's Retts Clinic). Only 20% were truly viable candidates for eye-tracking (although 40% more with low tech practice could improve over time), whereas the majority (through a variety of access methods) were better candidates for the Tango/Dynavox/and static display devices.
2. It is true that you don't want to "test" the girls with eye-tracking systems, BUT, eye-tracking systems like the Tobii and Eyegaze Edge have software analysis systems that could teach us a lot about what the girls understand. With the meaningful items placed on the screen, we could actually track every miniscule eye movement in duration, direction, and more to assess (in perspective with their degree of apraxia) what they attend to--this is just an idea at this point, for although they used the software for a host of other research projects, no one has tried this yet. I'll get back to you all on the viability after we discuss it more in December with key research people.

3. I've used all the eye-tracking systems collectively more than anyone I know in the field, and feel all the systems each have their own unique users. My advice is that users collect/create meaningful communication or education boards in SDPro, Intellitools, Powerpoint or whatever you use; load these boards on each system, and try them out. You need to try all the systems before you make a decision, and you should have a team help you arrive at that decision.

Here are my personal feelings about each unit for kids with Retts for what it's worth:
Dynavox: weaker on positioning angle, accuracy, eyeglasses, and head movement, and computer access, strong on communication and funding.
Tobii: weak on positioning angle and accuracy, strong on range of head movement (like some kids with Retts) and average on communication and computer access.
Eyegaze Edge: weaker on excessive head movement, strong on head positioning and accuracy, and computer access, average on communication setups.
ERICA: weaker on excessive head movement, accuracy, and eyeglasses, stronger on and computer access, funding and affordability.

Hope this helps. Once again, I am biased because I work with the Eyegaze Edge; but as I said, you need to try them all. Mark

Comment by Kate Ahern on November 7, 2009 at 4:57pm

A student in my class recently did demos with Tobii, Eyemax, Erica and Ecopoint. She is an fair to excellent four to six location low tech eye gazer. None of the devices could tolerate her glasses (so much for that claim from all the companies). Here is where we are at:

The Erica is out of the running because 1) the battery life is 1.5 hours, 2) the symbol set is terrible, 3) the vendor here does not take state medicaid.

Our user doesn't need the language piece of the Ecopoint right now (we don't think... though she is a surprising young lady), but PRC has some nice advantages. Especially Classroom Suite being avaliable with the eye gaze. I think. No one is very clear on how well it works.

I am generally displeased with Dynavox right now for about a dozen reasons and my kiddo just could not calibrate on it. But the option of having Boardmaker too there is nice. We (or rather I) would want Gateway not InterAACt. Yet, there is the calibration issue.

Thus we are at the Tobii. She did ok at that trial. Calibration was tough. I wish we spent time teaching her the different calibration systems, but that would have been a lot of effort for her and most of the device she would try once for an hour. I would like the Tobii to have Boardmaker Plus or Classroom Suite ready to go so I can use activities I have already made instead of recreating the wheel. I like that it uses SymbolStix as we are a Unique Learning/News-2-You classroom.

My biggest question none of the reps answered well was, "how well does this device allow eyegaze to control outside software?" Maybe someone here has an answer?

Our team meets Tuesday to pick a device to get a 2 week loan and collect some data. I have created some low tech eye gaze boards to allow my student to give her input to the decision.

Comment by Rose-Marie Gallagher on May 11, 2009 at 7:13am

Does anyone know of a person in the New Jersey/Pennsylvania area qualified to provide an independent educational evaluation? I am in contact with a family in that area whose daughter with Rett--and her school--could benefit from outside expertise. Thanks!
Rose-Marie

Comment by Jamie Pender on January 12, 2009 at 8:46am

Hi everyone - I'm an SLP working with a 4 year old girl with Rett trying to get funding for an eye-gaze device either the MyTobii or Dynavox Eyemax. We've had both reps come out. They both have their advantages and disadvantages...
Dynavox advantages = it's more portable (my girl is mobile)
Dynavox disadvantages = it's difficult to calibrate eye movements and i've been very displeased with the customer service with Dynavox

Mytobii advantages = it seems to run on better, more advanced software that is capable of doing more. Eye movements were easily calibrated, customer service is great
Mytobii disadvantages = it is not as portable and it costs a FORTUNE.

Has anyone submitted to insurance for one of these devices recently? I know with the economy the way it is insurance companies have been denying, denying, denying...

Comment by Rose-Marie Gallagher on January 8, 2009 at 7:43am

Just wanted to share this training opportunity with anyone in the Maryland area:
http://www.matcoop.org/training.htm. Linda Burkhart has done some great things with kids having Rett syndrome. Ooooh, I wish I could attend! If anyone in our group gets to go, I hope you will report back to us all.
Rose-Maire

Comment by Wendy Homlish on September 12, 2008 at 7:25pm

What's up with everyone this fall?? Anyone attending CTG? I would like to get our Dynavox rep out for a trial of the DynaMax - anyone had any experience with it yet?? Thinking about it for one of my girls who has trialed MyTobii...

Comment by jodi gregory on August 24, 2008 at 9:32pm

i am a new member and have been working with a girl diagnosed with rett syndrome for approximately 2 years. we were able to teach her requesting with a talk tech box and she is able to to request over 30 items from a field of 6. we are going to be borrowing a tango and will begin to teach her to use it during the next few weeks. im hoping we will have success!!!!!!!

Comment by jane flood on June 24, 2008 at 8:26pm

I am looking forward to sharing ideas and learning from all.

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